Originally Posted by GGTharos

The Vortex Ring condition is a pretty standard helicopter
phenomenon.

As this old chopper pilot knows full well. The point I am making is the V-22 is a hybrid vehicle. It operates in the helicopter mode for take off and landing, but it is not a helicopter. Some years ago my wife and I were at Farnborough for the display and an autogyro fatally crashed close to us. As I knew the pilot (Peewee Judge) I was keen to read the accident report. I had to wait years to do so, as the examiners had to undertake original research to enable them to understand what went wrong. Some 'accepted wisdom' was proven to be wrong. I submit that the Osprey is sufficiently different from a helicopter that known helicopter characteristics will not help in understanding the crashes.

So, what we have is three crashes due to poor parts/QA, for which the blame rests squarely with the manufacturer, and another which is essentially pilot error (the pilot is supposed to be trained to anticipate the VRS and avoid it - it is a KNOWN phenomenon of rotary-wing aircraft)


Poor parts maybe, but the V-22 missed out important milestones from its development, like demonstrating auto rotation. It is inconceivable that this still hasn't been done. I don't think any blame attaches to the pilot for discovering less than lovely traits under adverse conditions.

So then, the pilot should have done his transition at speed and altitude - the only two things that let you recover from VRS, or allow you to avoid it completely (especially speed). Helicopter pilot face THE EXACT SAME PROBLEM.

Are you saying helicopters can't do powered descents and approaches? They can and do. Vortex ring state in a helicopter is understood, but the Osprey is NOT a helicopter. It is prone to Vortex ring state at very slow rates of descent. This is simply not acceptable. Transition time from flight out of musketry range to wheels on must be as short as possible. Even transport aircraft virtually dive to a landing in combat areas.

If they need to descend quickly they must have a lot of forward speed, -then- slow down and go into hover or near-hover like descent.