gunnut
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All they have to do is cease being muslims and they won't feel occupied.
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They don't just "feel" occupied, their land is occupied. It's not a perception, it's a matter of fact.
Christian Palestinians, too, live under occupation.
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In fact, the UN resolution in 1948 that created the state of Israel also created the state of Palestine, for the Arab muslims living in that region. They refused (actually their patrons in other Arab nations) to live side by side peacefully with the Jews. That's what those numerous wars were about. Israel repeatedly offered to give back the land and let the Arabs start the nation of Palestine. All they have to do is recognize Israel as a nation. They refused time and time again.
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First, Israel was not "created" by any UN resolution. The UN General Assembly passed a resolution advising a partition of Palestine into two states. It was merely a proposal, not legally-binding.
Second, the partition plan that was created gave most of the land to the minority population. The Arabs, who were the majority and who owned most of the land, naturally rejected. It was an inherently unequitable proposal.
Third, aside from the proportion of land proposed for each state, the proposed "states" were non-contiguous, so even if the proportions had been more just, rejection would still have been reasonable.
Israel was "created" when the Jews unilaterally declared its existence.
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I concede nothing. I live on this land legally. Want to see my papers? That makes me not an "occupier." The American government is the occupier. And they did it fair and square by removing the original inhabitants and then improve the land with technology.
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There was nothing "fair and square" about it, but I'm sure you know that. Indigenous people were forcibly expelled from their land, or worse, killed. Treaty after treaty was broken. The nation was founded by ethnic cleansing.
Back to the point, applying your logic, you are an illegal occupant upon the land.
So, if you insist this isn't the case, then obviously there's a problem with your logic.
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They take the land by force, just like all others. Given a chance, the Arabs will wipe Israel off the map and take their land. Might does make right.
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I strongly disagree. The acquisition of land by force is theft, and it is illegal. By any standard, it is a crime as well as immoral, if one espouses even the most elementary moral standards.
shek,
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1. Provide some cases of international law where cluster munitions have been ruled to be forbidden, i.e. case law that supports your tortured reading of the 1997 ban on AP mines.
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I have already provided you with the laws whereby cluster munitions are illegal weapons.
1) International law forbids indiscriminate warfare (see above). The use of cluster munitions in populated areas is inherently indiscriminate warfare.
2) International law forbids indiscriminate weapons, which includes weapons whose effects cannot be limited to military targets. Cluster munitions, on account of the fact that they have a built in dud rate and unexploded munitions become de facto landmines, are inherently indiscriminate weapons.
3) Landmines have been explicitly outlawed. Unexploded cluster munitions are de facto landmines.
It is a tortured reading of the letter of law indeed that allows cluster munitions to be regarded as "legal". The spirit of the law is unambiguous.
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2. Your last statement is fallacious and a non-sequitir, as it uses circular logic.
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Incorrect.
Stan187
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Interesting how you bounce around between moral and legal standards as it suits your argument. That is EXACTLY why I call you cherry picker.
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The title doesn't fit, I'm afraid, since I don't "bounce around between" moral and legal standards, but accept and apply them both.
They both suit my argument. The moral standard just so happens to be irrespective of any legal one.
zraver,
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The Palestinians do not have any legal rigth of return ...
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The Palestinians absolutely do have the right of return.
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Nor is Gaza or the West bank legally Palestinian territory...
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The Israeli occupation of the territories is absolutely illegal.
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Israel would be legaly justifed in simply forcing the Palestinian population out.
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That is, in fact, a crime under international law.
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The recent war in lebanon are also not illegal.
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The destruction of Lebanon was the result of massive war crimes, including destruction of civilian infrastructure and indiscrimate attacks in populated ares, resulting in massive civilian casualties.
That's illegal for Hezbollah. It's illegal for Israel.
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Any nation has the right to absolute self defense specially when the UN has absolutely failed in its duty-
To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace;
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I absolutely agree. This failure is in no small part due to the US, which uses its veto to diplomatically support Israeli crimes and aggression.