astralis,
It's a legitimate question. It's you whose being disinegenuous by refusing to answer it. So again: Define "destruction" as you are using it. Do you mean they wish to see the land scorched and burnt? Or do you mean they wish to see the land where the state of "Israel" now is become some other state? What do you mean?
I can't agree with you unless I understand more precisely what you mean.
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and this is where we end the debate. you are being intellectually dishonest here. in any scenario where the right of return is part of this "two-state solution", you are in effect destroying the israeli state in return for a larger palestinian state. there IS no two-state solution in this scenario, in other words. you can talk as long as you want about forcible expulsion, and trading one forcible expulsion for another; however, if you want to be honest, just say that you support the destruction of israel and the creation of a palestinian state in its turn.
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You're right, the debate does end here, since you're demanding I accept your terms without definition, demanding that I accept the words you put in my mouth.
Well, I reject them. What I support is the creation of a Palestinian state alongside Israel. I also support the right of return for Palestinians forcibly expelled from their homes.
To deny them that right is immoral.
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your simple look is indeed just that. the US firebombed hundreds of thousands of japanese civilians, murdered them if you will, during WWII; japan, perhaps in the hundreds (pearl harbor, american expats). hell, that's not 23:1, that's probably on the order of 500:1, if not more. but you would be amoral idiot, at best, if you used that as a basis for comparison between right and wrong.
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Those were unspeakable war crimes. I don't know what you mean by "comparison between right and wrong". I've not made any comparison between "right and wrong". I've observed that:
Again, it's the pirate and the emperor. Suicide bombings are horrendous crimes, but they pale in comparison with the crimes commited by Israel. A simple look at the number of Palestinians murdered compared with the number of Israelis murdered is enough to demonstrate that point. Take the violence this summer, from the end of June through September. 43 Israeli civilians had been killed. The number of Lebanese civilians killed (not including Palestinians) was over 1000. That's around 23 murdered Lebanese for every murdered Israeli.
Stan187
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Right, so everyone should make sure to kill an even amount of people, because laws of morality include kill ratios as we all know.
This is just part of why you're an imbecile.
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Right. And it requires the construction of a ridiculous strawman on your part to demonstrate that point.
Well, I agree with you. That strawman is an imbecile.
I, however, of course, have never said or suggested any such thing.
It's a factual observation. The crimes of Israel were far greater than the crimes of Hezbollah. Hezbollah killed innocent civilians. That's a crime. Israel killed far, far greater numbers of innocent civilians. That's a greater crime. Or, perhaps it should be put another way: far greater occurances of equal crimes. You choose whichever terms you think are more precise. The fact remains, and no amount of either ad hominums or strawmen can change that.