JAD_333

Do you have a less biased source for all that info? The house doesn't bother me. It's big, but not palacial. Just right for a growing family. The price is no big deal. Million plus dollar homes in and around major cities are common these days. Looks like they got sucked in during the boom. In any case, I am not prepared to discuss their finances...don't know detail intimately. Since you do, maybe you could open a new thread on it.

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To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education. (Plato)

astralis

whatever obama's got, hillary's got even more.

politicians don't become politicians without quite the personal financial backing. you don't need to be in mitt romney territory, but...

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Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present.

-Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Dreadnought

One thing is for sure.

If I (John Q. Public) can figure out that Wright is racial (and by no doubt he has proven it time and time again by now) within the first five minutes of his speech. How is it that Obama couldn't pick that up after listening to him for TWO DECADES!

So even know Obama must seperate himself from Wright (To keep his handlers happy and to say what the people want to hear to get their vote) Do you think that listening to a Rev (And I do use that term loosely for this man) for 20 years is going to disappear when he reaches the white house?

People, You are only fooling yourself if you believe this will happen. Like many say about others he is a product of his enviroment and if he was listening to Wright for twenty years it dont take rocket science to configure his true nature nor the enviroment his ideals are based upon.

I have no problem with a black president (actually the ones I wish would run wont) but I do have a problem with a canidate that has listened to racially charged sermons (and ludicrious ones at that) for twenty years as was not man enough to say you are wrong and walk away. Sorry folks you wont convince me that the person who couldnt walk away from racism is still there and can be indifferent when it comes to race and the white house.

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Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

dalem

I've never understood this one. Why should I keep an open mind on something I've gathered sufficient facts on? I think the Obamas do NOT love their country as it is, and I think they are NOT patriotic.

So what?

-dale

7thsfsniper

Sorry, I tend to be biased toward the truth. Other than a powerful voiceover and some music, I would just call that news. I don't think anything was inaccurate there, just dramaticaly presented.

As for his financial situation, I have issue when you make your money in the manner depicted in the video. I have been to the obama truth website. They seem to be reporting accurately since I would think if they where not, Obama should get a lawyer after them. Libel suits can be quite lucrative and not to mention the political opportunity.

I wasn't trying to make the Obamas finances an issue on its own. its just evidence of his ethics and supportive of this subject thread.

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Don't run, you'll only die tired!

JAD_333

Why? Because facts may arise or old ones turn out false.

You don't have ALL the facts; you have media reports, selected snippets of sermons, pundit opinions, and so on.

That's enough to form an opinion, which you have. But if new facts come along or old ones turn out to be wrong, what will you say? Don't bother me with the facts; I have my mind made up?

Interesting qualifier you put after "country": "as it is". Interesting because no one who is politically involved in elective politics from office seekers to voters loves their country AS IT IS. Just so you don't misunderstand me, I am talking about "country" not as landscape, but as government, social structure, and all that. If we loved it AS IT IS we wouldn't be trying to change it. It follows then that a patriot, who is defined in part by love of country, would never permit change because he loves it AS IT IS. If this is true, then office seekers and voters are not patriots. But the truth is we love what our country stands for: its values, its freedoms, its culture, its accomplishments, and its ability to adapt to new challenges. You're wrong about Obama.

7thsfsniper

I wouldn't deny a fact. But it would have to be very compelling.



And that's your opinion.

JAD_333

lol...a bias is an opinion formed without using all the facts available, but a bias can accidentally turn out to be true. I don't think you have all the facts, but since I am beginning to sound like an Obama supporter, I'll respect your possibly true bias.

I was in advertising and political campaigning. I know all about packaging facts to make them sound suspicious...dramatic music, cynical voice-overs, carefully omitted details, specially cropped photos, edited clips and all that. It's called innuendo. It's a safe bet when see those devices being used, the message of the piece is too frail to stand on its own.


The courts rarely accept liable or slander suits filed by political candidates and officeholders. It a lose-lose for the officeholder because of the discovery process and the toll on his time. It's best to say as little as possible about such accusations because in responding to them you create more media coverage to the benefit of your accuser. Also, the public has come to expect politically motivated charges ever since Jefferson and Adams exchanged vile, anonymous newspaper attacks on each other.

It's an axiom of politics that a false charge only takes a minute, but proving it untrue takes a 100 years.


It's a valid topic.

dark-alias

Check out national review

JAD_333

Of course.


I am afraid so. However, I suspect that with a week or two of in depth research on Obama's life and statements, I could turn my opinion into fact. Fortunately, I don't have enough pride to rise to the challenge.

Let me ask you a question: Do you hope I am right?

JAD_333

Fine conservative magazine...supports McCain...worth reading.

But can you find a more objective source?

dark-alias

Sadly I cannot, maybe due to lack of time and so forth, or maybe because it does not benefit the (majority) laft media to examine it, so its up to fine outstanding right wing columnists to do it for them.

dark-alias

excuse me, left wing media

7thsfsniper

I'm from Missouri-so show-me(and I got the time). Actually JAD, I like to think there is good in all people. I'm sure Barack is not a evil or sinister guy. I have listened to several of his speeches(un-edited) and he talks a good game. If he is genuine then he has some good traits(ie his views on personal responsibility) which by the way goes against his party values, IMHO.

I can't say I hope you are right because personally I am sick of the whole political process and may not vote at all for the first time in twenty years. I really don't like any of them. The men that I thought may be right for the job are already out of the race. Not only do my political views differ greatly from Obama and Clinton I really don't like the character of either. I am a libertarian(not a liberal!) and I am afraid that, IMO it is too late to fix many global problems and some here at home through the political process or diplomacy. Now I know the image some people draw when a person says what I just did(usually liberals). So to answer that I will say I am a very happy, positive person. No doomsday, evrything is hard, everything sucks, kind of attitude.

JAD_333

Who you like and don't is your business. I don't particularly like Clinton or Obama either, but if a gun was put to my head, I'd choose Obama because he runs a tight ship and he navigated his way to the top without a kick-start like Hillory got. On the other hand I like McCain for what he's been through and how he handled it, and because he's a private person.

Speaking of Libertarians, I sent my son to a school in SC run by an ex-Marine officer who is an active Libertarian. The school is up in the mountains and its centerpiece is survival training and communal work along with regular classroom studies. My son often talked to me about the civics and history lessons the ex-Marine officer taught at the school. As you can imagine, he came home a libertarian with the same tendencies to look over his shoulder to see if any anti-strict constructionists were creeping up on him and a supply of mild conspiracy theories. Self-reliance is a common and admirable trait among many Liberatarians. Cheers.