What if McCain believed in this...? - Page 2

Indirect Fire · 05-03-2008, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnut

Or what if Bush had belonged to a church with this value system?

Barack Obama: The Black Nationalist Candidate - Associated Content

YouTube - SHOCKING Obama audio: anti-White speech from his own mouth

As an atheist and one who believes in separation of church and state, he won't get my vote.

7thsfsniper · 05-03-2008, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ba1025

I think i know who the rascists are and you be them
Do you think he hates his Mom?

I'm outta here i thought you were conservatives not Tim Mcveigh john birch nutjobs

RACISTS!?..............Where!?............I have seen many different people here but no racists!

Tim Mcveigh was a murderer and domestic terrorist IMO. However, the John Birch society calls notable people such as Ronald Reagan and John Wayne as members. I can't say I totally agree or disagree with thier views but I wouldn't put them in with the likes of Mcveigh.

John Birch Society - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

**Parihaka** · 05-03-2008, 11:21 AM

Something our own Traps has had to say on the subject of Obama and Wright.

Quote:

Barack Obama and the race for the White House

Over the past few months I’ve twice been asked to appear as a pundit on the BBC World Service’s “Have your say” programme dealing with Barack Obama’s bid to become the Democratic Party’s nomination for the White House. In both cases the question of race and its effect on his candidacy was the pivotal point around which the debates revolved.

The timing of the first show coincided with the start of the Democratic primaries, around the time of Senator Hillary Clinton’s epiphany in a New Hampshire coffee shop when the wheels of her campaign appeared to be coming off. Despite her efforts to style the Obama campaign as slick and inexperienced, she was going backwards and fast.

Questions of her throwing in the towel started to surface with campaign managers quitting and even an insert on the Drudge Report that this might well be it. Was it a case of misogyny being worse than racism among American voters? Suddenly and unexpectedly, even to herself, the tears flowed and a stay of execution was granted by the electorate.

Yet despite all this, Obama continued to grow stronger and his appeal to a broad base of Democratic and Independent voters became self evident. The unthinkable became very thinkable — America was sending a strong signal — we are ready to elect our first black president.

Leaving aside that half of his parentage is white, including his cringeworthy granny, Barack Obama had shown that American voters were taking a quantum leap into virgin territory.

Which brings us to the second show, a couple of days ago, where the issue of race took on an entirely new and uglier complexion. Gone was the question of whether Americans would elect a black man and in its place was the issue of whether they would vote for a black man who had supported a radical black pastor who held views which were unpalatable to a sizeable portion of the white American voters.

Let’s take a step back to Obama’s speech on race and the Reverend Jeremiah Wright at Philadelphia which I dealt with in considerable detail at the time.

Not only was it a stunning address, but it dealt with issues in a way which will allow us to reach a greater understanding of the gulf that divides the races. As I said at the time, this speech, regardless of the outcome of the election, will stand the test of time. It truly echoed Nelson Mandela.

Moreover, it was Obama’s James Bond moment. Stirred, but not shaken, he took on all comers and did not abandon Wright.

He displayed incredible resolve and strength of character from a great president in the making.

Before I deal with Wright’s media blitz, which has occasioned severe damage to Obama, I would like to repeat that — a great president in the making. Nothing has changed save that his former pastor has gone to the local nuke dealer and bought some ICBM’s for Hillary Clinton to use against him.

This is unforgivable.

Wright started a weekend media blitz with a Friday night interview by Bill Moyes on PBS and then addressed the National Press Club in Washington on the Monday. He blamed America for 9/11 and said they were capable of releasing Aids to control minorities. He said blacks think with one part of the brain which made them more creative and whites with another, making them more logical. In toto, he gave the Clinton camp enough soundbites to make the claim that Obama, by association, had to be unelectable.

Needless to say, Obama was left with no alternative but to distance himself from Wright.

It is against this backdrop that the second BBC debate was entered.

Two of the pundits went to great lengths to point out the work that Wright had done and the era of segragation within which he grew up. They were at pains to point out that voters would not have reacted the same if it were a white clergyman relating to Clinton or McCain.

My point was this — of course what they are saying is right, but and it is a big, big but, Wright knew of the terrible damage he was occasioning Obama’s campaign.

In addition he knows that a president Obama could achieve enormous credibility, gains and leverage for the African American community, yet he carried on regardless. After all, if Obama can sit in the most powerful seat in the world what can’t an African American do?

Yet despite all this, he elected to go and make the case for Clinton that electing Obama is tantamount to bringing the views of Wright to the White House.

God damn America?

It is irrelevant what Wright has done before and when he grew up, or even the hardship he suffered, when he stands on the brink of setting the African American cause back at least a decade. If he claims to have their interests at heart what possessed him to inflict this act of sabotage? What purpose, other than Clinton’s, did he serve? Everything he said was well known in the media as the feelings of African Americans. Obama offered voters a paradigm shift — that the black versus white take on policy could become one take against those who exploited all Americans for themselves.

Of course it is unfair for Obama to take the rap for Wright. Unfortunately he did, somehow survived and witnessed, in what I can only imagine was horror, as Wright grabbed for the brass ring of public attention again. Can he survive it again? This will fall to the superdelegates and if they are courageous and wise enough to hand him the Democratic baton, the American people as the Republican machinery comes into play.

Just as an aside — if that does come to pass I would pay to see a debate between Pat Robertson and Jeremiah Wright. Bonfire of the insanities?

We all know that the American Constitution provides for a division between church and state. Whether the American voter can make that distinction between Obama and Wright, only time will tell. One thing this election will show us on the issue of race is how far America has come and how far she still has to go.

Let us pray it’s one small step for America and one quantum leap for mankind.

JAD_333 · 05-03-2008, 13:52 PM

[quote=7thsfsniper;492109]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAD_333

It seems to me, if you want to exclude everything else he says and believes in, that's all you'll see.

The truth is, we whites are nervous at the prospect of a black becoming president when most blacks in our predominantly white society still celebrate their victimhood.QUOTE]

Sorry JAD, I am white and could give a damn what color or sex the Pres is. ALL I care about is what is best for this country and Brother, Obama ain't it! If you want somebody of color as prez, lets look to Colin Powell. And if you want a WOMAN of COLOR........Condy is my pick. I'd take her over Billary any day! Oh! I almost forgot, too bad Clarence Thomas is busy on the Sup Court. He'd probably get my vote. I've heard from this man how he was raised and what is in his heart. WOW! what a good American.

Fact is I don't think any of the people I just mentioned could win the black vote, but IMO would have an excellent showing among whites.

Now here is the solution. If all Americans could say all the above without saying "black, white, man, woman" and base thier vote on the belief, moral compass, and reliability of the candidate, we could very well come out the better.

Other than that you have a very valid point, mostly.

Personally, a black, yellow or brown president doesn't worry me in principle. The "we" I wrote in "we whites" refers to whites in general. From what I read and hear coming from various sources, there is a fairly large segment that is nervous about having a black president and another, smaller segment that still hews to the old belief that people of color are inferior to whites. I don't think the latter is open to reason. The former is, and the most compelling reason why I think they need not be nervous is our system of checks and balances. A black president might succeed in redressing many black issues where a white might not, but any form of retribution on his part would not get far and would be political suicide.

I agree with you on both Colin Powell and Condi Rice. Powell I worked with when he was military assistant to Weinberger and I know from watching him in action that he commanded respect from all quarters. He's a crackerjack administrator and master of compromise; his wife, unfortunately, isn't up to the character battering that comes with campaigning. Rice from all appearances is a supurb analyst and more intent on performing statecraft than chasing racial hobgobblins.

The only idea that I agree with Obama on is elevating the tone of political debate above the rancorous fighting that passes for political debate these days. It seems we can't get a good debate going on the merits of an issue without one side or the other hauling in their ad hominum artillery to settle it, or worse, outright lying to sway public opinion. Hamilton and Jefferson set the tone back in the 1790s. We've been following in their footsteps since then. So, it may be a pipedream to hope for better.

7thsfsniper · 05-03-2008, 14:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAD_333

We've been following in their footsteps since then. So, it may be a pipedream to hope for better.

True, however tragic. Thank you for expounding on your point.

JAD_333 · 05-03-2008, 14:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parihaka

Something our own Traps has had to say on the subject of Obama and Wright.

Well written piece and basically on point. Three observations:

1) God damn America.

It should read: God, damn Amercia. What difference a comma makes. In the context of the biblical passage Wright was preaching from, literalists could interpret it to damn a country who did x and y, which Wright did, addressing God to pass the judgement called for in the passage.

(This is in no way intended to let Wright off the hook entirely. If all he can see is X and Y, he abused the Bible badly.)

2) Traps says, "One thing this election will show us on the issue of race is how far America has come and how far she still has to go."

Yes and no. This election is not about race, as much as race has entered into it. It is about issues facing all Americans. And Obama could lose on them and not because of racial attitudes. So, it is wrong to make this election a test of "how far America has come."

3) Traps say, "They were at pains to point out that voters would not have reacted the same if it were a white clergyman relating to Clinton or McCain."

Wright was not just any clergyman relating to Obama; he was his pastor for 20 years and a respected mentor. Traps doesn't know American politics if he thinks a white candidate with an off the wall pastor would get off lightly. His or her opponents would make sure he didn't.

dark-alias · 05-03-2008, 14:57 PM

Pick up a copy of National Review (May Issue) and read "Hot Air Rising" its an obama piece that opened up my eyes(a little more)

JAD_333 · 05-03-2008, 15:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dark-alias

Pick up a copy of National Review (May Issue) and read "Hot Air Rising" its an obama piece that opened up my eyes(a little more)

Which article?

NR / Digital on National Review Online

dark-alias · 05-03-2008, 15:23 PM

Quote:

Which article?

It's the cover story on the May 5th issue, I'm afraid you cannot view the contents online, I have the actual magazine.

JAD_333 · 05-03-2008, 15:39 PM

The black view of Wright.

Quote:

The Green Eyes of Envy
Posted May 1, 2008
By Pamela Gentry, Senior Political Producer

Posted May 1, 2008— The saddest part of the recent shenanigans by the Rev. Jeremiah Wright will be that if he succeeds in derailing Sen. Barack Obama’s journey to the White House he will have shamed himself, the Black clergy and Black America, all in one fell swoop.

Yesterday my blog was swamped with theories of why Wright went so wrong. Some folks feel Wright was an instrument of the opposition to Obama’s candidacy, but everyone was curious about Wright’s motivation.

Not me, I think it was as simple as jealousy.

link to rest of article and responses below...look at the responses...

BET.com News - Pamela on Politics » The Green Eyes of Envy

JAD_333 · 05-03-2008, 15:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dark-alias

It's the cover story on the May 5th issue, I'm afraid you cannot view the contents online, I have the actual magazine.

I know. I asked which article...there are several. We'll be able to read it in a week or so online.

dark-alias · 05-03-2008, 15:50 PM

Quote:

I know. I asked which article...there are several. We'll be able to read it in a week or so online.

"The Obama Way" by Fred Siegel, sorry

JAD_333 · 05-03-2008, 16:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dark-alias

"The Obama Way" by Fred Siegel, sorry

np, thanks.

gunnut · 05-04-2008, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAD_333

It seems to me, if you want to exclude everything else he says and believes in, that's all you'll see.

The truth is, we whites are nervous at the prospect of a black becoming president when most blacks in our predominantly white society still celebrate their victimhood.

Part of the reason is the double standard. While blacks entrench themselves in a black world of their making (having assumed the role whites once played in that regard), whites would be roundly criticized for doing the same thing.

I don't think many whites would even want to emulate blacks in that regard. It amounts to delay of the game. If all races are going to live together in harmony, we have to de-emphasize race. That blacks are going in the opposite direction is counterproductive, IMO.

A black president who could serve all Americans equally would be a breakthrough in the effort to de-emphasize color. Obama fits the mould well enough; unfortunatesly his liberal politics put me off. But all this hand wringing over every crumb of perceived racism is a distraction unworthy of us.

Sir I beg to differ. White people have no problems with a black man in power. I would think Colin Powell would have easily won the nomination of the republican party and had a good shot at the White House.

White people, and others, have a problem with a black supremicist in the White House, just like a white supremicist in the White House.

I believe Obama is more loyal to Africa than America. I believe Obama is a Marxist in his approach to the economy. I believe Obama is a liberal to the extreme in all aspects of his world view. And that scares the bejeezus out of me.

JAD_333 · 05-04-2008, 13:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnut

Sir I beg to differ. White people have no problems with a black man in power. I would think Colin Powell would have easily won the nomination of the republican party and had a good shot at the White House.

I think you have a healthy view, but it's yours. And although many share it, you cannot draw the conclusion that it represents the view of all whites. I think you will find that fear, or wariness, if you prefer, among whites of a black president increases as you move upward through the age brackets, though few will admit it, prefering instead to cite political objections. It is a dying sentiment, but not dead yet.

Quote:

White people, and others, have a problem with a black supremicist in the White House, just like a white supremicist in the White House.

If you are inferring that Obama is a black supremicist, you are mistaken. First of all, the level of political support he gets from leading white politicians is a de facto rejection of that view, and nothing in what he proposes comes remotely close to making him a black supremicist.

Quote:

I believe Obama is more loyal to Africa than America.

What evidence do you have to support this conclusion? Pride in his heritage? If so, what would say about non-black Americans who celebrate their roots?

Quote:

I believe Obama is a Marxist in his approach to the economy.

That's a huge stretch. A reading of Das Kapital will provide you with enough material to label everyone a Maxist. But to be a real Marxist one has to subscribe to the totality of Marx's economic philosophy. I don't see that in Obama or Clinton or even the more liberal dems. That aside, you are evoking the propagandist's tool of labeling someone with a dreaded word without making the case to prove it. Do you take us to be fools.

Quote:

I believe Obama is a liberal to the extreme in all aspects of his world view. And that scares the bejeezus out of me.

That is closer to the way I feel. If we want to defeat this guy come November, we have to make the case why his liberal views are actually a danger to the US. I don't see very many anti-Obama folks doing it. To summarize my view, Obama's foreign policy approach from what I've seen so far is contradictory--storm Pakistan's NW territories whether Pakistan agrees or not and withdrawing from Iraq irrespective of other considerations is a huge contradiction.

Also, with respect to Israel, I suspect he will lean heavily in the direction of the Palestinians. It may be that he'll see the light in time that the US cannot afford to show weakness in the face of adversity, but I am not willing to take that chance. As for his domestic policies, he'll have a devil of a time getting anything radical done with conservative members of Congress from both parties acting as a brake.

But, in opposing him on political grounds we have to avoid anything that smacks of racism. You can bet your bottom dollar now that attacks on him in the runup to the election (if he is nominated) which have nothing to do with racism, will be labelled as such by his supporters.

Our best offense is a disciplined focus on the issues and avoidance of personal attacks. In that regard this election will be like no other this country has had before. McCain understands this as you can see in his insistence that NC republicans dump their Wright attack ads...

So, if you want to see McCain win in November, lose the personal stuff and go for the issues.

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05-03-2008, 14:57 PM	#22 (permalink)
dark-alias *Military Professional* Join Date: 03-28-08 Location: California Posts: 218 Country:	Pick up a copy of National Review (May Issue) and read "Hot Air Rising" its an obama piece that opened up my eyes(a little more)

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