Ironduke

Or not. It doesn't have any relation to the Reverend Wright story.

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The Buck Stops Here

tphuang

dude, in the department that I work for right now (about 4000 people) consist of 1/3 white, 1/3 Indian, 1/3 Asian, guess how many of our top level department heads is non-white, one (yes 1). I'm not going to say which company I work for, but it is one of the most well known ones in financial field. And you say race is not a disadvantage? Look around the wall street and see how many CEOs are non-white. Look around at the tech companies, the only ones with non-white CEOs are the ones that had non-white founders.

T_igger_cs_30

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FEAR NAUGHT

I don't work here ...I am an analyst!

JAD_333

lol...well, I got the idea from something you said, but that doesn't mean anything except I got it wrong.

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To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education. (Plato)

tphuang

I'm talking about the financial industry. I don't see the point of your question.

T_igger_cs_30

JAD_333

This is a forum discussion, debate, tirade, whatever you want to call it. I am not pleading with you to accept any realities, much less my point of view. So, where do you get off telling me to get over it? Get over what? The fact that you're tired of talking about racism and gee whizz, it's 2008, and it doesn't exist anymore. It seems to me you been spending more than a little effort to establish that some preacher is a racist.

.

That's your interpretation. I stand by my original point. The whites in this country created the idea that black is unique. They did it by denying blacks the same rights, advantages, and freedom of movement that they had. It seems to me only natural that blacks have come to see their color as important? As long as discimination against color exists, the subjects of it are bound to come together to resist it.


You know that won't vindicate him. He might as well throw in the towel. Are we speaking of choices made before Wright became a cause celebre, or of not choosing to quit his church when he became aware that its pastor was making outlandish statements.


Not so. I think his remarks were provocative and out of line. I only said that I understood the basis of his "God damn America" statement, and it isn't what it sound like, but it sounds dreadful. My argument isn't that they were ok statements, but that Obama should not 1) be held to blame for them, and 2) should not be taken to task for not disowning his paster or his church.


Well, we agree on something. Where we differ perhaps is in our perception of where things stand today. I see too much discrimination--aside from the contrived cases of the "supervictims" you mentioned--to say it's all over. Obama is proof, IMO.

I can see that. Right about now, I am getting a powerful urge for good cup of Sumatra.

gunnut

Go to Cal Tech, Stanford, Harvard, UCLA, UC Berkeley, and just about all our elite colleges. Take a look at their science, pre-law, and pre-med student body. You will notice a disproportionate number of Asians students. Does that mean Asians are smarter? No. It just means Asians take those fields more seriously than others, for whatever the reason.

Whites dominate the executive positions because they like those positions and go after them.

Those Asian students you see in pre-med? They go on to be doctors.

Different people, different interests and motivations. You cannot force people to do things they don't want or don't like just to satisfy your need to see some different skin colors in the field.

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"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

kuku

Or may be breeding too fast, and migrating on every location in this planet, half of the under grad jerks i knew studying outside India are the ones who could not make it in domestic colleges and had dads with too much money, same story with many post grads.
If you can make in to a IIT or IIM in India, you can make it anywhere, even if you cant quite make it in these institutions, you will make the cut almost everywhere else. F-ing cut throat competition man and not enough places to study.
A good thing about social progress is that people begin to see the importance of alternate profession, instead of everyone just blindly trying to become a Manager, doctor, lawyer or engineer.
A nation without art is not a nation, its a machine.

i know, just ranting.

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cheers

FibrillatorD

As Jad's been saying, that kind of logic is questionable.

If you haven't already done so, at least give the man equal time before you recant.

Transcript: Barack Obama's Speech On Race, - CBS News

tphuang

There aren't any white people in those countries
Have you ever been to these companies and know what proportion of these companies are non-white?
A great Canadian company, research in motion, do you know how much of the company's work force are white and non-white? Do you know how much of the managerial position are occupied by non-white?
Are you telling me Asians don't want to go after the managerial positions? Seriously, that's total hogwash. As I said and I've seen and heard this with many financial and tech companies, Asians simply don't get promoted at the same rate as the Caucasians. Let's not even get into the upper management, even the lower management is like that. You think the Asian engineers in these companies don't want to be managers? I can tell you with 100% conviction that's not the case.

I'm kind of wondering, how old are you exactly? Since you are Asian, if you've worked for a while, then you should see what I see.

gunnut

How many of those non-white workers are native born? How many are foreign born?

I'm 36.

I've seen managers of all types and colors. Senior management usually means those guys had years of experience in the management before getting there. Immigrants just haven't spent that much time there. Also immigrants usualy aren't here to manage. They arrive usually to take technical jobs. Technical types don't normally go into management.

Another problem with immigrants is that they usually have less than perfect command of English. That also might be a barrier to promotion.

Native born Asians can and do get to senior management. But their numbers compared to foreign born Asians are much smaller, especially in the technical field. I rarely see a native born Asian engineer. Most are foreign born.

T_igger_cs_30

You know there is just no talking to some people they defeat there own argument then still argue

dalem

Maybe they're simply not as qualified?

-dale

dalem

It was a general comment directed against those who use the past to try and keep racism alive in the present. My effort at defining my terms and buttressing my opinion is merely proportional to yours in contradicting it.

If it's a bad idea, then drop it. I don't care if Johhnie is black, so I don't expect he would either. If he does, I think he's being stupid.

Indeed, that's my whole point - he can't climb out of this hole. The most important spiritual and ideological element of his life, by his own admission, turns out to be a place with an extremely anti-American message led by an extremely anti-American pastor. For a significant portion of the American population, that's simply a deal-breaker.

I think this item alone ensures that Obama cannot win in the general election.

Oh, I understand your position, I just disagree with it.

Obama's not encountering problems because of his skin color, he's encountering problems because of his history and his naivete as a presidential candidate.

Yeah, tonight after work will be a good cigar and a couple of fingers of scotch, I think.

And some time with the WAB, can't skip that.

-dale