JAD_333

Your point seems to be that, because Obama could be president it is particularly unacceptable for him to call his pastor his friend because his pastor makes outlandish statements. Or, to put it another, someone aspiring to high office should disown any friend who says something provocative which he or she disagrees with.

I am satisfied that Obama did not subscribe to what his pastor said in those inflamatory sermons. The issue for me was how he would handle the public revelation. Would be claim ignorance or admit he knew of his pastor's sermons? I think his speech today put the issue to rest for anyone with a sense of fairplay. Of course, there will be those who won't and can't let it go.

Time to move on.

__________________
To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education. (Plato)

gunnut

That's not the point.

The point is his spiritual advisor, someone who performed the wedding ceremony for him, baptized his kids, and a close confidant, is a racist.

Wright is not just some schmoe he knows at the bar and plays pool with. Wright is very close to him. Close enough to be a concern.

We all know people of ill repute. But how many of us are life long friends and confidant with such people?

Will we be so quick to dismiss someone like Bush or Reagan if they were caught attending a church frequented by the Klan? How about a church pastored by high ranking Klan member? How about having the said Klan member as an advisor and close family friend for 20 years? We might as well put David Duke in the White House.

__________________
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

Ironduke

I love how he threw his grandma under the bus in defending Wright.

__________________
The Buck Stops Here

citanon

I don't think Obama should disown his friends. I think he should have exercised moral leadership in that personal relationship. Why didn't he stand up to his pastor and tell him he didn't agree? Why did he reference this man as his moral compass when he obviously knew this man's outrageous beliefs and teachings? People try to dismiss this as a molehill, but it raises deep questions about Obama's character and deep seated beliefs. Why was he not willing to fight for values he says he's so passionate about when the cameras were turned off? Because either he really secretly agreed with the man on some issues, or he isn't quite as passionate as he lets on.

You have, on the one hand, John McCain, who took torture to avoid demoralizing his fellow POWs and burnt political bridges standing up for things he believes in, and, on the other hand, Barack Obama, who wouldn't bother raise his voice over dinner to his life long friend and mentor about outrageous and unpatriotic teachings at his church. I think it speaks volumes about Obama as a person, and to me, it sounds like a whole lot of hypocrisy, at best.

Parihaka

To the point as always Ironduke

kmchugh

Your point is well taken. However, it is also true that one may be judged by the company s/he keeps, true? In Obama's case, there seems to be a pattern emerging that the company he keeps tends towards racism and violent anti-Americanism. We all know about his relationship with Wright.

Most of us also know of his relationship with William Ayers, an admitted anti-American terrorist. Various reports I've read and heard claim the relationship runs the gamut, some claiming them to be "friends" while others say Obama only met the man once. However, Ayers is a well known liberal activist in Chicago politics, with an admitted and unrepentant history of committing bombing attacks on federal government property. Perhaps my viewpoint is narrow, but whether your viewpoint is liberal or conservative, anyone with an admitted history of attacks on the federal government is to be shunned, not courted and curried for political favors.

Even Obama’s closest friend, his wife, has made comments that raised eyebrows. We all know about them, and I don’t feel the need to go into depth on them. In every case, she felt the need to “clarify” her viewpoint. For myself at least, her viewpoint is VERY clear.

The point is that the man surrounds himself with others whose views are racist, socialist, and violently anti-American. Best case is that his judgement of others is extremely poor. Worst case is that he himself subscribes to these views. In either case, he is a very poor choice for president.

__________________
If you didn't pay any taxes, it's not a rebate. It's welfare.

Sardaukar

And you know this how? I mean the part where you say Obama didn't raise his voice during dinner? Or that he never voiced his own opinion to the pastor?

__________________
Live and let live.

citanon

Because, if he did, he would have said that he did with a **** storm like this going on, and because had he confronted Wright about his sermons, the Wright would not be going on about how Obama knows what it's like to be living in a society ruled by elitist white men, and especially because if he truly took offense to the rather disgusting things Wright have said in the past, then he would not have pointed to him in the past as the inspiration for his book and a moral compass.

"Raise his voice during dinner" is just a figure of speech.

Sardaukar

Ok, so these are just assumptions and not proven facts. Thx for the reply.

Chunder

I think you lack experience or have an axe to wield. My sister turned out to be a fully fleged racist. I was disgusted enough to leave dinner one night where she was having an 'informed chat'.

But she's my sister. I don't embarrass her, and don't do the injustice of publically humiliating her. Because its not Brotherly material.

Just like trying to distance yourself and trashing someones reputation because of your position in a presidential race, isn't presidential. Doesn't mean that all of a sudden 'im a deep down racist' because of these 'secret views my sister always held'.

In a speech that is important, if you ever do speeches you SHOULD know that it is important to keep your message simple, and to the point. Rostrum, the worlds Premier speaking organisation recommends between 6-7 minutes to get your message through, for many people to remember.

A delibarative thought process can assess that had to be addressed. Guilt by association is not fair, any victim of crime will tell you that. Doesn't by far mean that Obama beleives white men are out to get him because he experienced predjudice / racism at one point or another, anymore than I think black men are out to get me because I felt targetted by a few lowlifes one night. If you want technical clarifications on everything - you start to get too politically correct.

JAD_333

That is not the point, at all. That is a series of facts followed by an
accusation based on statements which you and who knows how many others have determined to be racist.

A very legitimate concern.

Wright's ill repute is created by you and like minded people.

Damn right, we would. The KKK is way out there compared to Wright and the United Church of Christ.

First let's compare missions to see whether there really is any similarity between the church and the KKK.





If you didn't think Wright was a racist, what would you think he meant by his 'God damn America' and his other seemingly racist statements? I was listening to a panel of religious leaders--Jew, Protestant, Catholic, Fundamentalist-- talk on NPR about Wright and they all agreed he was unnecessarily provacative....but they also agreed that his 'God damn' statement was not racist, but rather a reference to a biblical or new testament phrase which whites pointedly ignored back during slave times. I wish I could find it; it has to do with a quote that God would condemn a nation that takes away people's freedom. I am not excusing Wright from being provacative, but I believe that if you dig a little farther into his record, you won't consider him a racist.

JAD_333

Reasoning like this would make impossible dialogue between people who disagree with each other.

Ayers is now a professor at the U. of Illinois, Chicago. Having a dialogue with an Illinois politician hardly seems sinister.

gunnut

Did you see the videos that showed Wright saying some of the outrageous statements during his sermon? I did not create those footages. I did not put words into his mouths. I doubt he said those things under any external influences. He truly believes the things he said. If not, he's a damn good lier.

JAD_333

No, you didn't say them. You judged them. You judged them as racist which is understandable because that's how they seem on the surface. I judge them as insultingly provocative. I am only suggesting that you go below the surface and see what he meant and then make a judgement.

gunnut

Maybe I have already and that's the conclusion I got.