Clinton wins TX, OH - Page 3

Charlie Horse · 03-05-2008, 11:25 AM

Once more, into the breach. As a "junkie", I'm truly enjoying the twists and turns this Democratic contest is providing. As Hill and "O" bob and wieve, they are moving increasingly left to purchase the vote of the liberals. What do we have so far?
1. Free Health Care
2. Exit Iraq ASAP
3. Free College for Everyone
4. Forgiving Morgage Loans
5. Free..........(fill in the blank)
If this goes all the way to Denver, and is brokered, the winner will find themselves so far left, there will be no way they can retreat to center. John McCain is the next President.

If You Show Fear They Will Turn On You

holmesauthor · 03-05-2008, 13:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Horse

Once more, into the breach. As a "junkie", I'm truly enjoying the twists and turns this Democratic contest is providing. As Hill and "O" bob and wieve, they are moving increasingly left to purchase the vote of the liberals. What do we have so far?
1. Free Health Care
2. Exit Iraq ASAP
3. Free College for Everyone
4. Forgiving Morgage Loans
5. Free..........(fill in the blank)
If this goes all the way to Denver, and is brokered, the winner will find themselves so far left, there will be no way they can retreat to center. John McCain is the next President.

If You Show Fear They Will Turn On You

Unfortunately, this year all candidates with any chance of winning come with major flaws. I admire McCain tremendously for his personal qualities and courage, but he is weak on the First Amendment, possibly our most important Freedom. McCain-Feingold compares with the Sedition Acts of the early 19th Century. Clinton's "Right Wing Conspiracy" talk is scary and almost McCarthy like. Obama wants "change" and "hope" and is the most likeable of the Democrat candidates, but he has no specifics. The recent double dealing with Canada and the American public on the NAFTA issues raises some character issues as well.

For me, the most important issues in comparing the present field is Security, our ability to survive the current Radical Islamic threat, and the fact that the majority of the Democratic Party in Congress does not take this issue seriously. This throws the balance of the scale to McCain for me. To sit out an election of this magnitude is unthinkable.

RadioPatrol · 03-05-2008, 13:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAD_333

Super delegates want a winner. Obama seemed unstoppable until today. But now? If he loses PA, which is very possible, and the delegate total isn't mathematically out of Clinton's reach with the super delegates, the convention will be the final battleground.

Sorry, but IMHO the Court System would be the final Battle Ground ........

rj1 · 03-05-2008, 13:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Horse

If this goes all the way to Denver, and is brokered, the winner will find themselves so far left, there will be no way they can retreat to center. John McCain is the next President.

Would you be willing to make a friendly bet if it does go to the convention?

Let's remember a lot of Republicans don't like McCain.

Quote:

Sorry, but IMHO the Court System would be the final Battle Ground ........

The Democratic Party is a private organization. The courts have routinely said in rulings they have little jurisdiction on internal party affairs.

**Ironduke** · 03-05-2008, 14:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAD_333

Read what you said carefully.

Typo... should read 25% of Clinton supporters would rather vote for McCain than Obama.

GAU-8 · 03-05-2008, 14:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironduke

Typo... should read 25% of Clinton supporters would rather vote for McCain than Obama.

"43.7% of all statistics are made up." --Anon

dalem · 03-05-2008, 14:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holmesauthor

Unfortunately, this year all candidates with any chance of winning come with major flaws.

As opposed to all those other elections when the candidates were without major flaws?

-dale

Adux · 03-05-2008, 15:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalem

As opposed to all those other elections when the candidates were without major flaws?

-dale

citanon · 03-05-2008, 15:54 PM

Quote:

Going negative proved positive in Clinton's comeback - Los Angeles Times
From the Los Angeles Times
NEWS ANALYSIS
Going negative proved positive in Clinton's comeback
The New York senator learned how to make 'experience' compete with Obama's 'change.'
By Peter Wallsten
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

March 5, 2008

WASHINGTON — In winning New Hampshire a few weeks ago, Hillary Rodham Clinton declared, "I found my own voice." But it was a much different voice in the closing days before Tuesday's voting that carried her to victory in Ohio and Texas -- and which now lets her make a strong case for extending the Democratic presidential race into the spring and possibly beyond.

Gone was the misty-eyed Clinton who scored points showing her human side. Gone was the gracious Clinton who, just two weeks ago, drew thunderous applause for expressing her pride in running against Barack Obama.

The new voice was angrier, sharper and far more negative toward Obama -- a voice that at one point bellowed at her rival, "Shame on you," as she pushed back against what she said was an unfair attack.

She ran a television ad suggesting that the youthful Obama could not be trusted if a world crisis forced the president from bed in the middle of the night. She questioned his ethics by repeatedly raising questions about his relationship with a disgraced supporter who, by the luck of the draw for Clinton, is the target of a federal corruption trial that began Monday in Chicago, where Obama lives.

And, highlighting a meeting between a top Obama aide and the Canadian government, she painted him as a typical, two-faced politician who told the voters one thing about his intention to change the North American Free Trade Agreement but with a wink and a nod assured a foreign government he would not follow through.

In each case, Clinton put Obama on defense in areas that have long been his biggest strengths. And in each case, she seemed to finally figure out how to make her brand of "experience" compete with a mantra of "change" that had spurred Obama's 11-contest winning streak going into Tuesday's voting and peeled away key components of Clinton's base.

Media exit polls showed that Clinton's new voice brought some of her old supporters back to her side: The New York senator won women, white men and lower-income voters in Ohio, and she won women, whites and Latinos in Texas.

And on Tuesday night, as a testament to that core constituency, she dedicated her Ohio win to "all those who have been counted out but refused to be knocked out."

Obama retains his delegate lead. But Obama's campaign had argued that a strong showing Tuesday would pressure Clinton to step aside. His campaign manager had predicted that Clinton would fail and that Obama's string of wins and his delegate advantage would be insurmountable.

Now, after Tuesday, such talk sounds far less convincing.

Instead, as the candidates eye more contests in the coming weeks, and with a crucial showdown set for April 22 in Pennsylvania, Clinton can point to her wins in big states such as Ohio, California, New Jersey and Arizona to make a case that she deserves the chance to fight for the nomination just as much as her rival.

And she can argue that Obama, who exacerbated Clinton's attacks on him by seeming to shade the facts around his aide's meeting with the Canadian government, is ill-equipped to take on Republican John McCain in the fall. She can plead her case to the public and, more important, to the nearly 800 party bigwigs known as superdelegates who may cast decisive votes at the party convention in August.

Obama will highlight what may be a slim delegate lead once voting ends in June.

"The key question is whether both campaigns have a story to tell on Wednesday morning," said Democratic strategist Michael Feldman. "Can Sen. Clinton make a credible argument about her electability in a way that keeps the uncommitted superdelegates in place and allows the campaign to move forward?"

But as Clinton once again finds her voice, many Democrats worry that her new style and tone could damage the party's chances in November.

Her wins Tuesday make it unlikely that Clinton would heed advice to alter what has become a winning strategy, but she may begin hearing from some party leaders that she should, at a minimum, tone down her attacks on Obama.

New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, once a rival for the nomination, warned in a television interview Sunday that the negativity between Clinton and Obama "could be campaign fodder for Republicans in the fall."

He cited the Clinton ad in which a narrator warned of a crisis unfolding in "a dangerous world" at 3 a.m. and asked, "Who do you want answering the phone?"

Richardson said he was concerned that as the campaign continues to unfold in the seven weeks leading to the Pennsylvania primary, "that this just continues, this negativity, personal attacks. . . . Those are not helpful ads."

In fact, exit polls suggested that the dangerous-world ad was helpful to Clinton. Though recent contests showed voters divided over who was most qualified to be commander in chief, the exit surveys in Texas and Ohio found that voters there overwhelmingly rated Clinton as most qualified to lead the armed forces -- a return to the impression many voters had held throughout 2007.

Before Clinton's victories on Tuesday, some Democrats had hoped that an ad hoc "Supreme Court" of party elders such as former Vice President Al Gore, former President Carter, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi or even onetime rivals such as Richardson or former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina might step in to persuade Clinton to step aside for the sake of party unity.

But Al From, who as founder of the centrist Democratic Leadership Council has a long association with Clinton and her husband, the former president, said Tuesday that such a scenario was unlikely.

And he said a drawn-out, negative campaign could actually prove useful.

"I'd much rather have a Democratic candidate who's had to figure out how to handle some fairly tough shots in the primary than one who gets knocked to the floor by the Republicans and doesn't quite know how to respond," From said.

But if Texas and Ohio are any indication, the negativity will take its toll. Exit polls published by CNN showed that barely more than four in 10 Democrats said they would be satisfied no matter which candidate won the nomination.

That kind of malaise is a stark contrast to the kind of universal enthusiasm seen from Democratic voters through early voting in January and much of last month. Even as Clinton got blown out in South Carolina, for example, more than three-quarters of voters said they would be satisfied if she were the nominee.

If the campaign stretches to June or even to a contested convention in August, reuniting the party could be difficult for either candidate.

peter.wallsten@latimes.com

Those exit poll numbers are a pretty big change from a couple of months ago, when (IIRC) something like 75% of Democrats said they would be happy with either Obama or Clinton.

dalem · 03-05-2008, 20:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adux

I'm just trying to be realistic.

Is McCain my idea of a perfect candidate? Hell no. Hillary? Obama? Giuliani? Bush? Bush? Reagan? Carter? Clinton? Madison? Jefferson? Lincoln?

Blah blah blah.

No candidate is perfect, no campaign is without flaw. That's one aspect of politics that I don't see the point in whining about.

-dale

jame$thegreat · 03-05-2008, 21:12 PM

Anyone worried about a dual ticket yet?

dalem · 03-05-2008, 23:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jame$thegreat

Anyone worried about a dual ticket yet?

The Demolition-Cratic ticket?

Bring it on.

-dale

Stan187 · 03-05-2008, 23:45 PM

Hilldog's win is a win for America?

How, you may ask?

The Democrats will continue to tear each other to shreds, and that makes whoever the final candidate is less likely to beat McCain. As with just about every election since I can remember, all I'm hoping for is the lesser of two evils.

SnowLeopard · 03-06-2008, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAD_333

It's not obligatory, but it's kinda nice when we use words that come reasonably close to expressing our meaning. I don't think "Clinton supporter", quite describes you although you voted for her. BTW, how did it feel pulling the lever for her?

Not that off of a feeling, perhaps a very slight odd twinge somewhere on Tuesday, but at the moment of execution, not that off a feeling at all..........

.............. but then again, the option of voting in primaries for someone who I would never vote for in the nationals to knock another out .....................

.............. has been in the "warbook" for years.
__________________________________________________ __
("We've been working together for months."--007 with Chinese agent Wai Lin against Elliot Carver, (w,stte), "Tomorrow Never Dies")

kmchugh · 03-06-2008, 08:15 AM

Hesitant to post, since my predictions about the election so far have been wrong, so I won't predict, but...

It appears likely that the democratic race isn't going to be settled until the convention. The fighting up to then (and even after) will be fierce, and at times nasty. Its even possible that whoever loses the dem nomination will strike out as an independent candidate, pretty much assuring McCain of a win. I doubt that the two big egos will ever be able to settle their fight enough to come together as a joined ticket.

In any event, with the rep nomination sewn up, the dem battle will probably do a lot of damage to whoever the democratic nominee is before the general election. I'm staying tuned.

03-05-2008, 21:12 PM	#41 (permalink)
jame$thegreat *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-24-04 Location: Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,044 Country:	Anyone worried about a dual ticket yet? __________________ Sometimes things dont end up how they should, a son, a brother, a mentor, a teacher, a cousin, a nephew, a grandson and a god in my eyes. Who knows what he more could have been... Christopher Muzykant April 9, 1976-November 4,2005 My Brother, Always and forever

03-05-2008, 23:45 PM	#43 (permalink)
Stan187 WAB BOUNCER *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-24-06 Posts: 2,323 Country:	Hilldog's win is a win for America? How, you may ask? The Democrats will continue to tear each other to shreds, and that makes whoever the final candidate is less likely to beat McCain. As with just about every election since I can remember, all I'm hoping for is the lesser of two evils. __________________ In Iran people belive pepsi stands for pay each penny save israel. -urmomma158 The Russian Navy is still a threat, but only to those unlucky enough to be Russian sailors.-highsea

03-06-2008, 08:15 AM	#45 (permalink)
kmchugh *Military Professional* Join Date: 12-01-04 Location: Arkansas, USA Posts: 90	Hesitant to post, since my predictions about the election so far have been wrong, so I won't predict, but... It appears likely that the democratic race isn't going to be settled until the convention. The fighting up to then (and even after) will be fierce, and at times nasty. Its even possible that whoever loses the dem nomination will strike out as an independent candidate, pretty much assuring McCain of a win. I doubt that the two big egos will ever be able to settle their fight enough to come together as a joined ticket. In any event, with the rep nomination sewn up, the dem battle will probably do a lot of damage to whoever the democratic nominee is before the general election. I'm staying tuned. __________________ If you didn't pay any taxes, it's not a rebate. It's welfare.

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03-05-2008, 11:25 AM	#31 (permalink)
Charlie Horse *Military Professional* Join Date: 12-21-06 Posts: 9	Once more, into the breach. As a "junkie", I'm truly enjoying the twists and turns this Democratic contest is providing. As Hill and "O" bob and wieve, they are moving increasingly left to purchase the vote of the liberals. What do we have so far? 1. Free Health Care 2. Exit Iraq ASAP 3. Free College for Everyone 4. Forgiving Morgage Loans 5. Free..........(fill in the blank) If this goes all the way to Denver, and is brokered, the winner will find themselves so far left, there will be no way they can retreat to center. John McCain is the next President. If You Show Fear They Will Turn On You

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