dalem

Pssst.

Ask him what it's like to be still part of the Crown.

-dale

gunnut

That came about because we have the winner-take-all electoral college system. Many people, especially those conservatives in huge democratic states (California, New York, Illinois) may not bother to vote, since their votes don't count.

Change the system to popular votes then you'll see large blocks of dormant conservatives in NY and CA come out in force, because they know for a fact now their votes will count.

You can't say that about the liberals in the fly-over states. There're aren't many people to begin with. Those who are liberals are even fewer in those states.

Should that happen, we'll see the liberals whine about the popular vote and beg to have the system changed back to EC.

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zraver

EC, otherwise flyover country will suffer.

Ironduke

From the presence of candidates making an effort to campaign in their states, instead of focusing on a few swing states?

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The Buck Stops Here

crooks

Ok, I getcha.

It's worked out pretty well for us for a couple hundred years.

Also true - has the electoral college been the way it's been done for the whole period of the US's existence?

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'Liberty - it is newly strung and shall be heard.' - Motto of the United Irishmen.

crooks

You do realise I'm IRISH yes?

We're not part of the British crown, and never really (de facto) have been.

marklv

Wrong. You were until 1921.

gunnut

We have never voted for our president any other way.

crooks

No true Irishman has ever considered himself a British subject.

De Jure of course (Englishmen's laws, not ours), but De facto, as in us feeling, or wanting to be like subjects, never (a Key difference between us and the Sellout Scots - we never were, or wanted to be, British).

I can claim my attractive neighbour is my subject - does that make it so?

That essentially defines the relationship your nation had with mine.

You attempted to force your laws and unions upon us, we NEVER accepted them, a point which after years of on-off bloodshed you finally acknowledged and left us alone - I for one am glad of it.

The only thing most Irish wish from Britain these days is for the North back, though these days we want it peacefully.

crooks

That's quite interesting - how did it work when there was 13 states?

Was it identical to today's system, with a certain amount of votes for every state?

Which was the largest?

ShawnG

So much for evolving.

Nowadays all the EC system entails is that the runners spend even more millions of dollars on campaigning in that many more locations for whatever political stronghold their "party" may have.

I'm not dissatisfied with everything about the system, it presents the right ideas. And I'm not a crying liberal, either. I simply find it unjust for a state to vote 51/49 and Bam... whoever BARELY scraped by with 51 gets the other guys 49.

I don't necessarily say get RID of the EC... as it was said earlier in the thread, it allows the "fly-over" states to have their say when they wouldn't without. But I do think that the EC should be split in each state. If a guy goes 60/40 in that states popular vote... let him get 60% of the electoral votes, and the other dude gets 40% of them.

And I find it hard to believe that America is the greatest and most successful government in history. I'm a proud American, but I also know that we are a fledgeling country. We've only been around for a few hundred years. Give it time before we go claiming the title. I'll say we're the greatest country in the world all day every day. But greatest in History is a broad statement.

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"Patriotism is not short, frenzied outbursts of emotion, but the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime." -Adlai E. Stevenson

ShawnG

Gunnut in another thread... thought it relevant to my point. Wouldn't need to worry about your votes losing if the EC was revamped or eradicated. That way EVERY vote counts.

glyn

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Ironduke

There's always been an electoral college. The only difference between now and then is that the runner-up in the electoral college vote count was elected vice president, until the 1804 election. Since then the electoral college has had two sets of votes, which each elector casting a vote for president and vice president.

zraver

The only way to make it fair and blunt the big states would be to divided the EC 3 ways among the top 2 finishers, winner gets 2/3 loser gets 1/3.