Hillary: $5000 for every baby - Page 4

JAD_333 · 10-03-2007, 22:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crooks

I broke my arm rollerblading in the Hague (Dutch city), was whisked to hospital, patched up and didn't pay a cent (and checked with my Irish healthcare company to make sure, the hospital didn't charge, at all, I just had to sign a few forms, or rather, Aoife had to sign a few forms, my hand was pretty bad..........I essentially got the care completely free - I didn't even pay taxes towards it).

I would also add that the care was excellent, and I would have little qualm paying for such an excellent service - now granted, broken arm is different to moving there, but that would surprise me greatly.

I had a similar experience while on a visit to London...quite impressive. As good as I would gotten stateside.

dalem · 10-03-2007, 22:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julie

Gimme a break....it was a bipartisan bill for pete sake. Couldn't he, for once, think about the kids and his fellow Republicans, rather than insurance companies and his God-forsaken legacy?

Julie.

He didn't cancel the program, he simply vetoed an expansion into areas which he felt were improper based on its charter. So don't spew this emotional antiBush crap about caring for the kids and thinking only about eeeeeeevil corporations and all that other B.S. Because none of that is relevant or true. Use your gorram brain, woman.

-dale

dalem · 10-03-2007, 22:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HistoricalDavid

Er, you're talking about children as if they are inanimate property of the parents, and if they have poor health, the only people who will go "oh, shoot" are the parents.

A child should not suffer from poor health just because his parents are retards.

And I am certainly not known 'round these parts as a hippy liberal Pilger-lite socialist, so nobody come at me with any of that BS. I like capitalism - but not for children, because they cannot stand on their own two feet.

Saying "Parents should have an appropriate number of kids" is a superb piece of advice... for aspiring parents. Trouble is, if the child's been popped out then the saying is just out of date, and the kid is still in poor health.

So what? There are already plenty of entitlement programs for that stuff.

Sorry, I just have no patience for any of this crap today. Last night I stood in line at the grocery store behind a chick who was paying part of her grocery bill with food stamps. She had about 5 gold toe rings and some of that swirly paint crap on her toenails.

Now maybe she had the rings before she went on Assistance and maybe her sister does toenail swirlies for free. Maybe her hubby is a Marine Sgt. and has been in Iraq for 2 tours. I don't know - none of my business.

I just despise the way our safety nets are set up. I know people who need real help and can't get it and people that don't who have gotten it. Inefficiencies frustrate me.

-dale

**Julie** · 10-04-2007, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalem

Sorry, I just have no patience for any of this crap today.
-dale

Translation: You don't have children.

This doesn't have anything to do with gold toe rings Dale....and if it did, the children have nothing to do with their parent purchasing them.

omon · 10-04-2007, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julie

Translation: You don't have children.

This doesn't have anything to do with gold toe rings Dale....and if it did, the children have nothing to do with their parent purchasing them.

sorry julie, it has everything to do with abusing social programms, i see it almost everyday, ladys in fur coats and huge dimond rings paying with food stamps, if you went to the brighton beach you,d see it yourself.
same thing with children health ins. imo familys who get 80k+ yearly and can afford a house and 2 cars, should be the only ones to provide health care to their kids. not oue taxes, as far as i know bush didn,t deny low income familys with health ins. also we already have program for low income familys, it is called medicaid.

**Shek** · 10-17-2007, 07:25 AM

Marginal Revolution: Better Baby Bonds

Better Baby Bonds
Alex Tabarrok

Quote:

Presidential candidate Hillary Clinton proposed giving every newborn $5000 that would accumulate interest and be available once the young person turned 18. She is now backing away from the idea but it's still worth thinking about the economics of the proposal.

Consider first that many parents already save to help their children through college. Thus, the first and primary beneficiaries of the plan wouldn't be children but parents who knowing that their child has some $12,000 (with interest) coming on their 18th birthday can afford to spend more on themselves. (Or if you like the parents can spend more on buying the teenager a new car instead of tuition, room and board.)

The parents may be the primary beneficiaries of the transfer but they are also the primary bearers of the tax. Thus, instead of parents taking money out of their pocket and giving it their children directly we have the government reaching into the pocket of the parents with one hand and giving to the children with the other. But taking a dollar from A and giving it to B typically costs a lot more than a dollar - given the costs of taxation and bureaucracy a dollar taken may be only 50 cents received.

Baby bonds are more likely to be a net increase in wealth for poor families. But will the money be spent on something like college? Yes, in some cases, but it's naive to think that the only problem of poverty is lack of money. Laugh or curse if you like but think about it this way: A child born in the United States already owns an immensely valuable asset, namely the right to live and work in the United States. This right is worth much more than $12,000 (ask any immigrant) so is more money really going to make a big difference in life choices?

A baby bond might be worth testing if it were targeted to the poor (to avoid the wasteful transfer) and if instead of focusing on income it looked to incentives. A better baby bond would be a true bond paid only if say the baby graduated from high school and had not been charged with a crime by their 18th birthday.

dalem · 10-17-2007, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julie

Translation: You don't have children.

This doesn't have anything to do with gold toe rings Dale....and if it did, the children have nothing to do with their parent purchasing them.

How does my frustration at someone using MY money to buy food while they appear to have enough spare change laying around for personal decoration translate to children???

-dale

Dreadnought · 10-17-2007, 12:48 PM

Exactly what I was going to ask. Where is the money coming from in Hilliarys proposal? Oh thats right it would be people like ME. I never mind helping out nor giving to a good cause but dont take my money and others because some people fail to exercise the right of responsibility when it comes to having children. And ALOT of people out there that certainly cannot afford to have children have alot more then their share and we all get to pay for it. I do love children but they and single people like myself should not be taken to the bank because "parents" made foolish choices and neglect responsibility when it comes to contraception. Hold the parents responsible not people at large. Especially the middle class, dont we already have enough burden to bare? Another ploy by "guess who" to get more women voters.

By the way..where was anybody to help me pay for college..thats right I recieved no grants, no discounts etc. I did it because I wanted to and worked my ass off to make it happen and make my life better. Self responsibility for one self.

STOP proposing more obsticals for the middle class to carry the burden for.

START making people more responsible for themselves and their sexual choices.

Then you HAVE done something that benefits all Americans alike not just the people you want to vote for you.

Dreadnought · 10-17-2007, 14:00 PM

I have a better idea Hilliary:

Why dont you and all of the members of the Democratic party in the House, Senate etc. agree that no member will recieve a yearly/quaterly pay raise from now until say 2074. We will take the money and invest it for all of your such generous (with our money) constituants. That way it can be funded without falling on the Middle class (as it always does) and you can award these prizes based upon your own set of criteria after a vote ofcoarse.

Dont like the sound of that? Well it sounds alot more better then what the real effect it will be on the middle class if they vote this clown into office.

Instead of you being the first women president, Be the first Democrat to lead such cannon fodder by example.Have your friends Cough it up first!

Dreadnought · 10-18-2007, 11:05 AM

Oh I almost forgot..And before the slinging starts like "You dont like children" etc. I am one of 8 children and have 9 (so far) neices and nephews. My father worked day and night to give us not only a decent living but also taught us self reliance as a point of responsibility, morals and etchics.

Polybius · 10-21-2007, 00:49 AM

Hillary lack any excuses for promising new programs when she knows
that we can not afford it. She is is an intelligent woman, educated and very well informed official.
Realities bites : Social Security , Medicare , Medicaid, consume more than 60% of our budget, Defense less than 5.3% ,
America has financed our budget for 3 decades borrowing, first from Japan , later on from China, we have built two great debts
National and Foreign Debt, around 3 decades ago, Our tax revenues stop producing enough revenue in order to finance our budget . So in order to pay for our entitlements programs, we cover the gap between tax revenue and expenses borrowing money abroad. We gave treasure, security and other notes to foreigners. Foreign powers used such loans to influence our political=economical-cultural decisions , to obtain much better terms for them in cultural, economics, political, military affairs , many times in detriment of American 'interest be economical, political, cultural or military.
The situation makes us hostage. America , not longer is competitive .
Manufacture sector, is crucial why , advantages, provides tech innovations, provides high cost exports , like electronics, vehicles etc

We lost such edge, and all the economical profits and advantages that goes with it. Also such revenues lost, means that American workers have less sources of income.
Service sectors, tech, global economy, global market
spread wise global education.
Have undermine any former advantage, HB 1 visas and outsources drain jobs and keep wages down for Americans.
The illegal alien immigration debate focus in agricultural jobs , while it is truth that most American will not take those jobs ,
What about the other jobs, those in the service sector and in the non agrarian sector. Like data entry, sales, cleaning, clerical, customer services low end of high tech , food industry, health care industry , construction etc , etc which many American are willing to work for and which HB1 visas , illegal aliens, outsourcing are taking away from us,
because , we spent money in cars etc.

Tech, as tech is transfer and tech is outsource , we lost that asset already . The only way to safeguard such asset is not transfer , to maintain research and development here , to control and exert an quasi monopoly on it.

Our birth rate does not produce enough population replacement.
less younger worker, less income , less productive worker, less economic activity, less growth , less ability to generate taxes.
Many older worker as they aged, they can not work, becoming increasingly depending of programs which are not economically sustainable /

Hillary promise National Health Care, I salute the concept but I reject it due to its impracticably. Example, If I have a two year old, I wish the best for my kid, and I would like to say, I promise that by Christmas you will have this and those , but if I know that I will not be able to afford it or if I obtain so, I will lack the means to provide my kids with other needs later on and even be in danger to go into bankruptcy .
I say, better not to promise my kid, all the wonderful gifts that I would like to give because I know that in the long term I will fail my kid, I will be deceiving my kid and out of respect, love and consideration, I should not do so
Hillary, does not care to deceive us. However, the public , many of them well informed wants to hear lies, and wants to join the wagon of delusion so it is also the people responsability to join the pathway to disaster.

Hillary also and lamentably the Republicans candidates with maybe the exception of Tancredo, will not change self defeated policies.

Military; America , policy to outsource defense weapon procurement is dangerous , flawed and totally against National Security.like keeping an mercenary army instead of taking the hard political decision , unsavory and unpopular but crucial for National Security. Draft, We need patriotic man power, not an army increasingly fill with legal( non citizens), illegal aliens who lack any patriotism, who do it for the money or path to be citizen, unreliable if in the future they will turn their military training against us, at the service of what the consider their real "nationality " or alliance.

President Bush showed again lack of real material for Nationalistic leadership .like he did during the alien immigration debate which we supported since his speech to the nation after being reelected in 2004, like his push for North American Union , under the radar screen , like his lack of desire to support our border patrols, to control the entrance of terrorists, enforcing our laws and banning legal immigration before its happens
like checking all our cargo , today after 9/11 less than 7% of our cargo is check. America 's leadership, be Republican, Conservative, Religious leaders or Democrats lack of will to promote national unity , breaking with multicultural balkanization , demanding assimilation, demanding shake up of the school system, promoting enforcing of our laws and ban on legal immigration . Fear to confront ideologically our enemies domestic and abroad. Fear to confront dogmas about how racist, horrible is our nation? Fear to expose cultures racism and evils .

Hillary is not trusted. But also , we Patriotic Americans are blackmail. Vote for anyone in order to stop Hillary. Yes Hillary is horrible, she will not get my vote,
But America needs an Patriotic Leader, who will make unpopular Nationalist decisions to preserve the Union and our Culture, restore our former Economic Political Military Power bringing it from a declining downhill fall, to upswing, in real terms
Most of th e Republicans candidates will not ,
Because we are facing the dismantling of American culture, the changing of our political system, the Continuous growth of generations of American's born who lack any feelings of loyalty , belonging to America
Gen erations of new immigrants who become citizen but in contrast with the generation who came before 1965, they feel loyal to their nation and country of origin . And those people those born here or abroad due to their legal status, growing presence in economics, science , politics etc
and numbers. Increasingly are taking the reins of power both at local level and the rest.With the h elp of Republicans and Democrats]
Remember
Be social conservative and nationalist American is not mutually inclusive.
And many Conservatives personalities welcome immigration base in social conservative position but forgetting the assimilation
As many Asians, Latin Americans, African who are both social conservatives, religious but politically An ti or at least not Pro America.
Talk radio shy away to expose the full dynamics and danger and to advocate for all the measures needed to defend our nation and to remind Americans to be aware of those who failed us,
Lets take the case of Bush, talk radio , fail to remind the public about Bush efforts not only supporting open border , against National Security but abandoning our border patrols like Ramos, giving away National sovereignty with those treaties for the North American Union etc etc

Many fellow Republicans , and Nationalist Americans , we are aware that talk radio, is not totally reliable. First the try to minimize Bush actions in the open border, later one when it went too big, the finally have to face either be Nationalistic or face lost of credibility but as soon as the storm pass.
the same pattern the same game.
I love talk radio and there is a lot truth which I do not find in mainstream media but I am aware about the conflict of political , economic interest which prevent talk radio's personalities to be fully trusted source of information. And 100 % be on position in defense of American security

And our nation National Identity and Security is in Danger High Danger

Inst · 11-30-2007, 22:52 PM

it's 20bn a year. Seems reasonable.

dalem · 11-30-2007, 23:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inst

it's 20bn a year. Seems reasonable.

Fine, you cut the check then.

-dale

gunnut · 12-01-2007, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inst

it's 20bn a year. Seems reasonable.

Socialists are always generous with other people's money.

Adux · 12-01-2007, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnut

Socialists are always generous with other people's money.

You should come to Kerala, and that statement would hold more than true.

10-17-2007, 12:48 PM	#53 (permalink)
Dreadnought *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 05-12-05 Posts: 5,801 Country:	Exactly what I was going to ask. Where is the money coming from in Hilliarys proposal? Oh thats right it would be people like ME. I never mind helping out nor giving to a good cause but dont take my money and others because some people fail to exercise the right of responsibility when it comes to having children. And ALOT of people out there that certainly cannot afford to have children have alot more then their share and we all get to pay for it. I do love children but they and single people like myself should not be taken to the bank because "parents" made foolish choices and neglect responsibility when it comes to contraception. Hold the parents responsible not people at large. Especially the middle class, dont we already have enough burden to bare? Another ploy by "guess who" to get more women voters. By the way..where was anybody to help me pay for college..thats right I recieved no grants, no discounts etc. I did it because I wanted to and worked my ass off to make it happen and make my life better. Self responsibility for one self. STOP proposing more obsticals for the middle class to carry the burden for. START making people more responsible for themselves and their sexual choices. Then you HAVE done something that benefits all Americans alike not just the people you want to vote for you. __________________ Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure. Last edited by Dreadnought : 10-17-2007 at 13:40 PM.

10-21-2007, 00:49 AM	#56 (permalink)
Polybius Regular Join Date: 10-20-07 Posts: 36	Hillary lack any excuses for promising new programs when she knows that we can not afford it. She is is an intelligent woman, educated and very well informed official. Realities bites : Social Security , Medicare , Medicaid, consume more than 60% of our budget, Defense less than 5.3% , America has financed our budget for 3 decades borrowing, first from Japan , later on from China, we have built two great debts National and Foreign Debt, around 3 decades ago, Our tax revenues stop producing enough revenue in order to finance our budget . So in order to pay for our entitlements programs, we cover the gap between tax revenue and expenses borrowing money abroad. We gave treasure, security and other notes to foreigners. Foreign powers used such loans to influence our political=economical-cultural decisions , to obtain much better terms for them in cultural, economics, political, military affairs , many times in detriment of American 'interest be economical, political, cultural or military. The situation makes us hostage. America , not longer is competitive . Manufacture sector, is crucial why , advantages, provides tech innovations, provides high cost exports , like electronics, vehicles etc We lost such edge, and all the economical profits and advantages that goes with it. Also such revenues lost, means that American workers have less sources of income. Service sectors, tech, global economy, global market spread wise global education. Have undermine any former advantage, HB 1 visas and outsources drain jobs and keep wages down for Americans. The illegal alien immigration debate focus in agricultural jobs , while it is truth that most American will not take those jobs , What about the other jobs, those in the service sector and in the non agrarian sector. Like data entry, sales, cleaning, clerical, customer services low end of high tech , food industry, health care industry , construction etc , etc which many American are willing to work for and which HB1 visas , illegal aliens, outsourcing are taking away from us, because , we spent money in cars etc. Tech, as tech is transfer and tech is outsource , we lost that asset already . The only way to safeguard such asset is not transfer , to maintain research and development here , to control and exert an quasi monopoly on it. Our birth rate does not produce enough population replacement. less younger worker, less income , less productive worker, less economic activity, less growth , less ability to generate taxes. Many older worker as they aged, they can not work, becoming increasingly depending of programs which are not economically sustainable / Hillary promise National Health Care, I salute the concept but I reject it due to its impracticably. Example, If I have a two year old, I wish the best for my kid, and I would like to say, I promise that by Christmas you will have this and those , but if I know that I will not be able to afford it or if I obtain so, I will lack the means to provide my kids with other needs later on and even be in danger to go into bankruptcy . I say, better not to promise my kid, all the wonderful gifts that I would like to give because I know that in the long term I will fail my kid, I will be deceiving my kid and out of respect, love and consideration, I should not do so Hillary, does not care to deceive us. However, the public , many of them well informed wants to hear lies, and wants to join the wagon of delusion so it is also the people responsability to join the pathway to disaster. Hillary also and lamentably the Republicans candidates with maybe the exception of Tancredo, will not change self defeated policies. Military; America , policy to outsource defense weapon procurement is dangerous , flawed and totally against National Security.like keeping an mercenary army instead of taking the hard political decision , unsavory and unpopular but crucial for National Security. Draft, We need patriotic man power, not an army increasingly fill with legal( non citizens), illegal aliens who lack any patriotism, who do it for the money or path to be citizen, unreliable if in the future they will turn their military training against us, at the service of what the consider their real "nationality " or alliance. President Bush showed again lack of real material for Nationalistic leadership .like he did during the alien immigration debate which we supported since his speech to the nation after being reelected in 2004, like his push for North American Union , under the radar screen , like his lack of desire to support our border patrols, to control the entrance of terrorists, enforcing our laws and banning legal immigration before its happens like checking all our cargo , today after 9/11 less than 7% of our cargo is check. America 's leadership, be Republican, Conservative, Religious leaders or Democrats lack of will to promote national unity , breaking with multicultural balkanization , demanding assimilation, demanding shake up of the school system, promoting enforcing of our laws and ban on legal immigration . Fear to confront ideologically our enemies domestic and abroad. Fear to confront dogmas about how racist, horrible is our nation? Fear to expose cultures racism and evils . Hillary is not trusted. But also , we Patriotic Americans are blackmail. Vote for anyone in order to stop Hillary. Yes Hillary is horrible, she will not get my vote, But America needs an Patriotic Leader, who will make unpopular Nationalist decisions to preserve the Union and our Culture, restore our former Economic Political Military Power bringing it from a declining downhill fall, to upswing, in real terms Most of th e Republicans candidates will not , Because we are facing the dismantling of American culture, the changing of our political system, the Continuous growth of generations of American's born who lack any feelings of loyalty , belonging to America Gen erations of new immigrants who become citizen but in contrast with the generation who came before 1965, they feel loyal to their nation and country of origin . And those people those born here or abroad due to their legal status, growing presence in economics, science , politics etc and numbers. Increasingly are taking the reins of power both at local level and the rest.With the h elp of Republicans and Democrats] Remember Be social conservative and nationalist American is not mutually inclusive. And many Conservatives personalities welcome immigration base in social conservative position but forgetting the assimilation As many Asians, Latin Americans, African who are both social conservatives, religious but politically An ti or at least not Pro America. Talk radio shy away to expose the full dynamics and danger and to advocate for all the measures needed to defend our nation and to remind Americans to be aware of those who failed us, Lets take the case of Bush, talk radio , fail to remind the public about Bush efforts not only supporting open border , against National Security but abandoning our border patrols like Ramos, giving away National sovereignty with those treaties for the North American Union etc etc Many fellow Republicans , and Nationalist Americans , we are aware that talk radio, is not totally reliable. First the try to minimize Bush actions in the open border, later one when it went too big, the finally have to face either be Nationalistic or face lost of credibility but as soon as the storm pass. the same pattern the same game. I love talk radio and there is a lot truth which I do not find in mainstream media but I am aware about the conflict of political , economic interest which prevent talk radio's personalities to be fully trusted source of information. And 100 % be on position in defense of American security And our nation National Identity and Security is in Danger High Danger Last edited by Polybius : 10-21-2007 at 00:57 AM.

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10-17-2007, 14:00 PM	#54 (permalink)
Dreadnought *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 05-12-05 Posts: 5,801 Country:	I have a better idea Hilliary: Why dont you and all of the members of the Democratic party in the House, Senate etc. agree that no member will recieve a yearly/quaterly pay raise from now until say 2074. We will take the money and invest it for all of your such generous (with our money) constituants. That way it can be funded without falling on the Middle class (as it always does) and you can award these prizes based upon your own set of criteria after a vote ofcoarse. Dont like the sound of that? Well it sounds alot more better then what the real effect it will be on the middle class if they vote this clown into office. Instead of you being the first women president, Be the first Democrat to lead such cannon fodder by example.Have your friends Cough it up first!

10-18-2007, 11:05 AM	#55 (permalink)
Dreadnought *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 05-12-05 Posts: 5,801 Country:	Oh I almost forgot..And before the slinging starts like "You dont like children" etc. I am one of 8 children and have 9 (so far) neices and nephews. My father worked day and night to give us not only a decent living but also taught us self reliance as a point of responsibility, morals and etchics.

11-30-2007, 22:52 PM	#57 (permalink)
Inst Patron Join Date: 12-17-06 Posts: 226	it's 20bn a year. Seems reasonable.

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