undecided? I'm a conservative democrat

howieskiv · 05-24-2007, 08:49 AM

McCain is a military man and an Air force pilot[very cool], Hillary saved our Airbase from BRAC, and Rudy was a leader on 911 and I live in New York
At this point in time I will vote for Hillary because we will get two presidents [Bill] when this country needs leadership and experience, only thing I keep remembering is that Bill Clinton cancelled the Blackbird funding if this relevant?

Tarek Morgen · 05-24-2007, 11:15 AM

What differs a "conserative democrat" from a "normal democrat"? The focus on military and foreign politic?

**TopHatter** · 05-24-2007, 13:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howieskiv

McCain is a military man and an Air force pilot[very cool

Small correction, John McCain was a Naval Aviator

Quote:

Originally Posted by howieskiv

Hillary saved our Airbase from BRAC

Don't kid yourself. Whatever military installations she saved, it was not for the military.

Bases equal Jobs
Jobs equal Votes

She saved bases for herself. She's a politician and that's what politicians do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by howieskiv

only thing I keep remembering is that Bill Clinton cancelled the Blackbird funding if this relevant?

SR-71 funding was cut off the first time in 1989, during the presidency of George HW Bush.

In fact, a lot of the deep military cuts blamed on Bill Clinton were in fact a product of George HW Bush's administration (i.e. Dick Cheney, then SECDEF)

However, Clinton did cut off funding during reactivation efforts in 1997.

dalem · 05-24-2007, 13:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howieskiv

At this point in time I will vote for Hillary because we will get two presidents [Bill] when this country needs leadership and experience,

So what kinds of leadership are you looking forward to accepting from the husband of Hillary if she wins?

-dale

Bluesman · 06-11-2007, 07:01 AM

An excellent George Will column:

Quote:

Democrats' Prosperity Problem
By George Will

Early in George W. Bush's presidency, liberal critics said: The economy is not growing. Which was true. He inherited the debris of the 1990s' irrational exuberances. A brief (eight months) and mild (the mildest since World War II) recession began in March 2001, before any of his policies were implemented. It ended in November 2001.

In 2002, when his tax cuts kicked in and the economy began 65 months -- so far -- of uninterrupted growth, critics said: But it is a "jobless recovery." When the unemployment rate steadily declined -- today it is 4.5 percent; time was, 6 percent was considered full employment -- critics said: Well, all right, the economy is growing and creating jobs and wealth, but the wealth is not being distributed in accordance with the laws of God or Nature or liberalism or something.

Last Sunday, eight Democratic presidential candidates debated for two hours, saying about the economy . . . next to nothing. You must slog to Page 43 in the 51-page transcript before Barack Obama laments that "the burdens and benefits of this new global economy are not being spread evenly across the board" and promises to "institute some fairness in the system."

Well. When in the long human story have economic burdens and benefits been "spread evenly"? Does Obama think they should be, even though talents never are? What relationship of "fairness" does he envision between the value received by individuals and the value added by them? Does he disagree -- if so, on what evidence? -- with Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke that "the influence of globalization on inequality has been moderate and almost surely less important than the effects of skill-biased technological change"?

What Samuel Johnson said of Milton's "Paradise Lost" can be said of the debate's short discussion of economic matters: No one could wish it longer. Granted, the candidates had bigger fish to fry -- one another, for their various positions on starting and ending the war. And the questioners set the debate's agenda. But if the Democrats had anything pithy to say about the economy, they would have said it.

They have a problem. How do you exclaim, as Hillary Clinton does, that today's economy is "like going back to the era of the robber barons" and insist that the nation urgently needs substantial tax increases, in the face of these facts:

In the 102 quarters since Ronald Reagan's tax cuts went into effect more than 25 years ago, there have been 96 quarters of growth. Since the Bush tax cuts and the current expansion began, the economy's growth has averaged 3 percent per quarter, and more than 8 million jobs have been created. The deficit as a percentage of gross domestic product is below the post-World War II average.

Democrats, economic hypochondriacs all, see economic sickness. They should get on with legislating their cure.

Twenty-three months after the next president is inaugurated, the Bush tax cuts expire. The winner of the 2008 election and her or his congressional allies will determine what is done about the fact that, unless action is taken, in 2011 the economy will be walloped:

The five income tax brackets (10, 25, 28, 33 and 35 percent) will be increased 50, 12, 10.7, 9.1 and 13.1 percent, respectively, to 15, 28, 31, 36 and 39.6 percent. The child tax credit reverts to $500 from $1,000. The estate tax rate, which falls to zero in 2009, will snap back to a 60 percent maximum, and exemptions that have increased will decrease. The capital gains rate will rise, and the marriage penalty will be revived, as will the double taxation of dividends.

Furthermore, the alternative minimum tax was enacted by Democratic moralists in 1969 because 21 millionaires had legally avoided paying any income tax. The AMT, which allows almost no deductions, had one rate (24 percent) until 1993, when Democrats replaced it with two (26 percent and 28 percent). It has never been indexed for inflation and in the current tax year will hit almost one in five households -- 23 million of them.

Democrats need not confine themselves to their ritual tropes about how "the middle class is under assault" (Clinton again). They control Congress; they can act. The unemployed John Edwards, who has the luxury of irresponsibility, challenges Democrats to repeal the Bush tax cuts they disapprove of rather than wait for them to expire.

Democrats cannot end the war (actually, they can but won't), but they can send their tax agenda to the president and dare him to veto it. They can, but they won't. Do you wonder why?

dalem · 06-11-2007, 09:52 AM

Yep. I guess it's not the economy unless you're stupid this time around.

-dale

Wraith601 · 06-19-2007, 00:17 AM

Makes you wonder if failing Economics 101 is a requirement for joining the Democratic Party.

AceofproZ · 07-13-2007, 06:02 AM

Howdy guys,

Okay... conservative democrat... ive heard that term used by a couple of my buds across the pond, but anyways does that mean you favor the republicans but now are actually intending to vote democrat due to the way the republicans have handled congress?

And also id like to ask why hillary clinton specifically, ive been watching most of the debates until now and i seem to favor rudy or obama. It seems to me, and perhaps to some others here, that hillary clinton never does anything or stays homogeneous for her own interests, if the crowd wants a blue president, she turns blue, if they want red, she looks conservative.

dalem · 07-13-2007, 13:00 PM

All Pols are whores, but Hillary doesn't hide it.

-dale

astralis · 07-13-2007, 14:00 PM

hell, that's honesty in its own way.

Grim Reaper · 07-13-2007, 16:22 PM

I can't stand Hillary or any Democrat for that matter. Giuliani has got my main support and MCcain second I'd say.

gunnut · 07-13-2007, 19:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceofproZ

Howdy guys,

Okay... conservative democrat... ive heard that term used by a couple of my buds across the pond, but anyways does that mean you favor the republicans but now are actually intending to vote democrat due to the way the republicans have handled congress?

Actually I think it's the exact opposite.

A conservative democrat is a democrat who doesn't like this new breed of leftist running the part, and will vote for independent or republican.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceofproZ

And also id like to ask why hillary clinton specifically, ive been watching most of the debates until now and i seem to favor rudy or obama. It seems to me, and perhaps to some others here, that hillary clinton never does anything or stays homogeneous for her own interests, if the crowd wants a blue president, she turns blue, if they want red, she looks conservative.

Hillary does what her husband did in office, govern by the polls. One way to stay popular is to do what the majority wants. The problem with that is you will have no principle. Your principle is to change with the political wind.

chankya · 07-13-2007, 20:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnut

Hillary does what her husband did in office, govern by the polls. One way to stay popular is to do what the majority wants. The problem with that is you will have no principle. Your principle is to change with the political wind.

Democracy is not about doing whats right(if there is such a thing) for the country. It's about doing what the majority wants.

What you're asking for is a benevolent dictatorship.

gunnut · 07-13-2007, 20:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chankya

Democracy is not about doing whats right(if there is such a thing) for the country. It's about doing what the majority wants.

What you're asking for is a benevolent dictatorship.

Not exactly.

What I ask for is someone who present his ideas and sticks to them.

Let us pick which person goes to the White House.

I don't want someone I voted for to change his views and the direction of the country just because the public changed its mind. That's not the person I voted for.

If the president should do what the majority wants and never have an idea, then why bother having a president? Grab any guy off the street and tell him what we want. Let's have the polesters run the nation.

-{SpoonmaN}- · 07-13-2007, 21:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopHatter

Small correction, John McCain was a Naval Aviator

Don't kid yourself. Whatever military installations she saved, it was not for the military.

Bases equal Jobs
Jobs equal Votes

She saved bases for herself. She's a politician and that's what politicians do.

SR-71 funding was cut off the first time in 1989, during the presidency of George HW Bush.

In fact, a lot of the deep military cuts blamed on Bill Clinton were in fact a product of George HW Bush's administration (i.e. Dick Cheney, then SECDEF)

However, Clinton did cut off funding during reactivation efforts in 1997.

I've lost all faith in Democracy. The ones that work well work well because their leaders ignore or misdirect their population so they have a free hand to make whatever choice they think is sensible on issues that actually matter. Like John Howard. We might as well not have elections, since the government basically does what it wants on everything to do with the economy, defence and foreign policy, because everyone is too stupid or too spoilt to really care. If Labour get in, I bet any money they will be the same.

The ones that don't work, and I'm landing the US into this category, don't work because the politicians will conciously make the wrong choice just because it seems more convenient to the public. Iraq and Immigration are my case in point. Although, Australia is guilty as sin in Iraq too since we have all our troops out of harms way, and then espouse the most vitriolic of rhetoric about "staying the course". Of course, here, everyone thinks that we're far too special to ever have to live up to our responsibilities.

Like what's the freaken point? Might as well have a dictatorship and hope whoever is in power dies before they go senile like Mugabe.

05-24-2007, 08:49 AM	#1 (permalink)
howieskiv Regular Join Date: 11-20-06 Location: Niagara Falls Posts: 25 Country:	undecided? I'm a conservative democrat McCain is a military man and an Air force pilot[very cool], Hillary saved our Airbase from BRAC, and Rudy was a leader on 911 and I live in New York At this point in time I will vote for Hillary because we will get two presidents [Bill] when this country needs leadership and experience, only thing I keep remembering is that Bill Clinton cancelled the Blackbird funding if this relevant?

06-19-2007, 00:17 AM	#7 (permalink)
Wraith601 Title Classified *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-23-04 Location: Mississippi Posts: 1,144 Country:	Makes you wonder if failing Economics 101 is a requirement for joining the Democratic Party. __________________ "We always have been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be, detested in France." -Sir Arthur Wellesley

07-13-2007, 06:02 AM	#8 (permalink)
AceofproZ New Member Join Date: 07-13-07 Location: Queensway Posts: 10 Country:	Howdy guys, Okay... conservative democrat... ive heard that term used by a couple of my buds across the pond, but anyways does that mean you favor the republicans but now are actually intending to vote democrat due to the way the republicans have handled congress? And also id like to ask why hillary clinton specifically, ive been watching most of the debates until now and i seem to favor rudy or obama. It seems to me, and perhaps to some others here, that hillary clinton never does anything or stays homogeneous for her own interests, if the crowd wants a blue president, she turns blue, if they want red, she looks conservative. __________________ Acey Bachelor of Information Technology ... and not to mention political enthusiast !!!

07-13-2007, 14:00 PM	#10 (permalink)
astralis Lei Feng Protege *Foreign Service* Join Date: 08-23-05 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 2,879 Country:	hell, that's honesty in its own way. __________________ Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present. -Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

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05-24-2007, 11:15 AM	#2 (permalink)
Tarek Morgen *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 02-08-07 Location: Kassel Posts: 770 Country:	What differs a "conserative democrat" from a "normal democrat"? The focus on military and foreign politic?

06-11-2007, 09:52 AM	#6 (permalink)
dalem Lord High Hullabalooster *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-23-04 Location: Columbia Heights, MN Posts: 8,153 Country:	Yep. I guess it's not the economy unless you're stupid this time around. -dale

07-13-2007, 13:00 PM	#9 (permalink)
dalem Lord High Hullabalooster *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 11-23-04 Location: Columbia Heights, MN Posts: 8,153 Country:	All Pols are whores, but Hillary doesn't hide it. -dale

07-13-2007, 16:22 PM	#11 (permalink)
Grim Reaper Regular Join Date: 02-11-06 Posts: 116 Country:	I can't stand Hillary or any Democrat for that matter. Giuliani has got my main support and MCcain second I'd say.

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