steven lloyd

Exactly the point I'm trying to make. Obviously you would not judge these men based on stereotype. Am I not making my point clear?

steven lloyd

Wow! I don’t how we got to here. I’m talking about alienating citizens of your own country by stereotypical prejudice and feeding resentment. Are you thinking I’m suggesting we do not forcefully respond to terrorism or terrorist states? I really must apologize if I’ve somehow given you that impression.

Officer of Engineers

No, you're not because there's another stereotype here - the soldier.

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Chimo

steven lloyd

I'm sorry Dalem. I have seen some well-grounded and well-founded opinions on this board that have given me some pause for reflection. Unfortunately, yours weren't among them.

steven lloyd

So, you're saying any Muslim is either an extremist, an extremist sympathizer, or a soldier? No other possibilities?

steven lloyd

And unfortunately, only a few minutes to respond to many posts. Hopefully I'll get the chance soon to engage in a more thoughtful manner. There have been some good points made here. Unfortunately, there is also still a lot of prejudice and hate that can only spread. As much as some Americans would like to believe it, the United States can't occupy and police the world. You need more partners, and you won't get them this way.

Officer of Engineers

If you don't got the conviction to act, then your voice counts little.

Stan187

People will hate America regardless of how we act in the world. Even if we "play nice" by your definition, people will still blame us for their problems. We are successful. That makes us an easy scapegoat.

You don't win more partners by burying your head in the sand, either.

Quite simply, I'm not sure how, concretely, you'd like us to act? What are your suggestions?

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In Iran people belive pepsi stands for pay each penny save israel. -urmomma158
The Russian Navy is still a threat, but only to those unlucky enough to be Russian sailors.-highsea

dalem

Well which parts do you take exception to? Let's deal with specifics.

-dale

Kassad

Yup, that's true.

astralis

stan,

yes and no. while it is true that there is always going to be a population that is deadset against america, or what america stands for, american actions (as well as perceptions of american actions) determine the vast majority of what others think of america.

however, i understand the point you're trying to make. i'm also interested in hearing what steven has to say as a "magic wand" to solve our problems!

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Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present.

-Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

steven lloyd

Certainly your multinational companies and corporate America has been successful, and there’s no doubt in my mind you have an impressive, kick-ass military force (I remember watching and cheering on your tanks as they rumbled across the desert during the last invasion of Iraq). However, you also have the highest rate of incarcerated citizens in the world, quite possibly the largest income gap in the developed world, quite possibly the highest rate of illiteracy in the developed world, and over a quarter of your citizens do not have basic health care. I suppose I’m just suggesting here that "successful" can be a relative term (and just for the record, I’m not saying Canada is setting any socially progressive benchmarks lately either).

I will also repeat myself here and say I am not suggesting the United States, or it’s allies (including Canada – even though we’re not often treated as one) not respond forcefully to acts of terrorism, terrorist states or oppressive regimes. I entered this fray and started off by trying to insert some cautionary reflection as posters present were (and still are) eagerly using stereotypical views to judge individuals en masse. In spite of how some (possibly many?) Americans like to look down on, dismiss and take Canadians for granted, most Canadians (including myself) consider Americans in general to be our neighbors and friends. – and sometimes friends need to tell their friends things they might not want to hear.

I don’t have any “magic wand” to wave, and I’m not sure what you think my definition of “play nice” is. Again, if you think I’m suggesting the United States or its allies not respond forcefully to terrorism then I’ve been misunderstood. What I am suggesting is that people just take a moment to engage in some critical thinking and question their assumptions. I know this is an emotionally charged subject (Islamic extremism) and we all have reason to feel fear, however, I don’t think we want to let fear rule us so much so that we can not respond to the threats appropriately and effectively. It seems that what some posters on this board are almost suggesting by inference is the establishment of interment camps. Certainly there is a lot of hate and mistrust being directed at some of your own citizens. This is scary, and falls right into the goals of extremists by destabilizing your society, further marginalizing people within your own country, and potentially creating more enemies right inside your borders. People who were once willing to be loyal to your country may be convinced otherwise because of their treatment by fellow Americans. Is this what you want to accomplish?

Anyways, I’m sorry I’m always dashing and running but I do have a busy schedule. I will do my best to get back here as soon as possible and further explain my position. I’m also very interested in learning more about your perspectives on this issue (although I have to admit that the perspectives of some is almost as scary as the other extremists).

Stan187

Point well taken.

I've never seen anyone seriosuly suggesting to put all American Muslims in internment camps on WAB.

Quite alright, I'm much in the same situation.

I would, however, like to hear more about what exactly you'd do as far as suggestions to solve our problems.

Stan187

Yes and no, as well. Perceptions of American actions more so than actual things we do, that I can agree with.

But having lived in the Second(Third) World for half of my life, I have definitely seen with my own eyes that in the eyes of many people (not a majority nor a minority, just a very significant part of the population) America can do nothing right.

Deioces

they make it sound like its a crime to be a muslim even if your not one. its the new red scare.